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Talk:German Robot Wars
German Robot Wars 2002 (RTL II) + is won - is lost Episode 1 +Son af Armaggedon +Tyke -Thorgrim +Junkyard Queen +Golem -Ansgar’s revenge +Son of Armaggedon -Junkyard Queen +Tyke -Golem German qualifier (for WCh) +Ansgar -Flensburger Power -Nasty Warrior -Golem Episode 2 +Tsunami +Black Hole -Absolut Krankhaft (AK) +Hydrotech +Not Perfect -Delldog +Black Hole -Hydrotech +Tsunami -Not Perfect WC qualifier 1 Manta 2Ansgar 3Mastiff 4ChaosII Episode 3 (finals) +Black Hole -Son of Armaggedon +Tsunami -Tyke +Son of Armaggedon (3) -Tyke (4) +Black Hole (1) -Tsunami (2) LosersMelee +Not Perfect -Junkyard Queen :My wonderful Dutch contacts have come through again. Here is the German results, so anyone can now put these into a proper article. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 21:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::I'll do it later unless somebody beats me to it. Good work once again. Is there any chance you could find out who the presenters and commentator were? Also, was the show simply called Robot Wars or did it have a different German name? Christophee (talk) 00:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC) ::I shall do that, as well as finding out what the losers melee means. I have an inkling that this wasn't a broadcast competition. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 00:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC) :::But the title at the top has RTL II in brackets, which is a German television channel. Christophee (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Is it? Well, that shuts me up, doesnt it? Haha. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 00:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Structure It appears that the Germans had a very different structure to your competition. It seems that they had two heats, with the winners of the Heat Semi-Finals going to the Grand Final, which is the same as the UK. I have no idea what the losers melee thing means though. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 00:18, 28 August 2009 (UTC) :It looks to me as though the Losers Melee is playoff for the fifth and sixth places. But why they left the other two defeated robots from the heat semi-finals out is beyond me. Christophee (talk) 00:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC) ::My theory is that the two absent robots were too damaged to return. I found Team Golem's webiste, and a report of their battles in German Robot Wars. It's in German, so I had to get a rough translation from Google Translator. Here's a passage: ::It sounds like their robot was in pretty bad shape, which would explain why they couldn't be in the losers' melee. ::As for Son of Armageddon, it had just lost to Black Hole, I'd surmise it was pretty badly damaged. 'RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 01:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC) :::You mean Hydrotech, right? That would make a lot of sense. Thanks. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 02:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I seem to recall hearing that Golem was used as a Dropzone item in the Grand Final. CBFan (talk) 13:28, February 2, 2010 (UTC) Losers Melee Would anybody object to moving the Losers Melee so it comes before the playoff for third place? It may well have been broadcast last, but I think it would look better if the battle determining the Grand Champion was right at the bottom of the page. Christophee (talk) 22:20, 28 August 2009 (UTC) :I was wondering about that, yes. Do it, I think. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 22:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC) A quote I have a quote that I think would be nice for this page, it's a snippet from the invitation extended to the German roboteers prior to the event. It was originally in German, so the English translation is somewhat rough, but it's quite inspirational, and significant to the page. It reads: 'RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 01:58, November 9, 2009 (UTC) Hey, RA2. Glad you liked my quote. You're free to quote me, but only if it's properly translated into English. Because to be honest: even I can't make heads or tails of this quote in this translation anymore. Where did you find it? On the German forum or in one of the countless emails I sent out back then? Anyway: if you would put up the original German text here, I'll do a proper translation of it as soon as I check back. Django Mathijsen 02:22, March 26, 2010 (UTC) ::It's an honor to meet you, I hope you will stick around. To answer your question, here is the link to the original quote: http://forum.roboteers.org/thread.php?postid=17816#post17816. The quote is so garbled because I used Google Translate. Cheers. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 03:19, March 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Once the quote is properly translated, I agree that it would be good on this page. But where exactly do you plan to put it? Christophee (talk) 14:40, March 26, 2010 (UTC) Hey, guys. This is a correct translation: "For the teams that have indicated they’re building for next year: just try to be there this year and join us through the process as far as possible. That will give you the best chance, also for next year. The experience you gain by partaking, even if you believe your first robot to be a total pile of junk, makes the difference between winners and losers. If you don’t believe me, then ask Erik de Vrijer, who won the Dutch Robot Wars last year. He was the first Dutchman in 1999 who fought with a robot (“Technolease”) in our arena. He’ll tell you without hesitation that this first robot belongs to the weakest robots that have fought in RW, but that the experience gained with it enabled him to build his 2001-Champ “Slicer”." I hope this is useful. This quote was one of the last paragraphs of my forum-post on May 23, 2002, inviting all the German roboteers to the first German “Cold Wars” (which is the name I introduced for our Robot Wars workshops). It was held on the parking lot of the Motel Moers on May 26. We invited roboteers to come to our Cold Wars with their robots, under construction (mostly cardboard boxes with bits), to show us the robots they were building. Derek Foxwell (the Technical Supervisor, i.e.: the boss), Val Foxwell (TX Control) and I (the Technical Consultant for the Dutch and German speaking roboteers) came over to listen to them and look at their concepts, parts and constructions. We offered advice and showed them how to construct things like removable links, antennas and failsafes, how to suppress motors and solenoids and how to radio control electric wheelchairs. Stuff like that. It always was a lot of fun and we always tried to involve everyone, even the guys who thought they couldn’t build a robot on time. Derek and I always had our cars filled with parts as well (like motors, controllers, batteries and RC-interfaces). On some of the Dutch Cold Wars, I even had my van full of old electric wheelchairs. Some teams had nothing but an idea when they came to our workshops, but left with the parts and knowledge to put together a robot in a few days. That was very rewarding. Django Mathijsen 17:52, April 16, 2010 (UTC) Logo I don't suppose anybody knows which logo they used for this series? I'm basically wondering whether it was the regular Robot Wars one or whether there was an adapted one like Extreme Warriors. The same goes for Dutch Robot Wars. Christophee (talk) 17:27, December 27, 2009 (UTC) Presenters I remember that somebody on the Dutch Robot Games forum said that Christian Mollmann was the pit reporter for this series. Is it possible that he was switched from presenter to pit reporter? By the way, where did you find out the real presenter? Christophee (talk) 11:58, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :Perhaps he did both? Helloher (Death is not my phone number) 13:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC) Commentator Did the German series have a commentator? ---StalwartUK 21:34, October 7, 2011 (UTC) :I would assume so, but nobody seems to know who it is yet. Christophee (talk) 11:06, October 8, 2011 (UTC) Amount of Episodes StalwartUK, can you provide any information regarding your edit? Matt Talk to me 20:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC) :Got the info from my Robot Wars Magazine (second version, issue 3). It lists the two heats, grand final and then two extra episodes: Germany vs UK Special (same as the one from Series 6, but with German commentary and interviews) and the European Championship Special (same one that's in Extreme Series 2 but again with German commentary and interviews). StalwartUK (talk) 20:45, July 7, 2012 (UTC) ::Oh, okay then, I'll reinstate the edit. Somewhat disappointed though, I thought you might have had some inside information :D Matt Talk to me 21:44, July 7, 2012 (UTC) :::It goes into quite a bit of detail on how the German series was made. One fact that seems worth bringing up: according to the article Jürgen Törkott was also the pit reporter. Christian Möllmann isn't mentioned anywhere. Kinda strange considering they mention how the UK series was redubbed into German and they had a certain unnamed German presenter doing the links. StalwartUK (talk) 20:24, July 8, 2012 (UTC) ::::We already knew this, Mollmann was the redubbed presenter. He was due to be the German wars presented, but was replaced by Torkott. Matt Talk to me 21:11, July 8, 2012 (UTC) Something interesting Is this of any interest? Sam (BAZINGA) 00:14, November 2, 2012 (UTC) :The website tells me to subscribe to them for £19 a month in order to read the article. If you can access the full article, could you paste the contents into a Pastebin document? [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 00:23, November 2, 2012 (UTC) ::Now I need to subscribe, it let me see the full article when I posted the link. Sam (BAZINGA) 00:32, November 2, 2012 (UTC) :14 October... guess we now have a broadcast date! Also did a quick search, looks like they have some other articles that might prove interesting. StalwartUK (talk) 11:18, November 2, 2012 (UTC) ::That article is dated 2001, and I think we're pretty sure that German Robot Wars was broadcast in 2002. Also, it says it's a 30 episode run, which suggests to me that it is actually referring to the German dub of UK Series 3 and 4. Christophee (talk) 12:10, November 2, 2012 (UTC) Success! Put "Robot Wars Deutschland" into Google and got back some very interesting pages. The series was shown every Saturday at 17:10, (later 17:15) starting from 5 October: *5 October 2002 (Heat A) *12 October 2002 (Heat B) *19 October 2002 (Grand Final) *26 October 2002 (UK vs Germany) *2 November 2002 (European Championship) There's various other bits in there that might be useful too. For instance the first article claims that the first episode was the "World premiere" of Mr. Psycho and Growler. Since UK series 6 didn't start till November the same year this appears to be correct. StalwartUK (talk) 17:53, November 8, 2012 (UTC) :Excellent work. I don't have time right now to look through all those pages, but I probably will tomorrow. Christophee (talk) 23:42, November 8, 2012 (UTC) ::I've read them now, and they're very interesting. Good finds. As for the 'world premiere' thing though, I've discovered that UK Series 6 was originally shown on BBC Choice in September 2002, so that claim isn't true. Christophee (talk) 14:34, November 9, 2012 (UTC) Craig and Philippa Craig and Philippa do some of the interviewing in the German broadcasts of UK vs Germany. Should they be listed as presenters? Matt Talk to me 11:56, November 4, 2012 (UTC) :I'd say maybe we should mention it in the article, but not add them to the infobox. Also, I hope you don't mind me correcting your spelling. Christophee (talk) 15:44, November 4, 2012 (UTC) ::Okay then, and no, of course I don't mind, force of habit, I was thinking about the robot. Matt Talk to me 16:20, November 4, 2012 (UTC) :::Having watched the episode, I'm now thinking we should add them to the infobox in addition to mentioning them in the article. I'll do it now and see how they look. Christophee (talk) 13:59, November 7, 2012 (UTC) ::::Since we're counting them now as German series presenters would it be appropiate to add the German series to their respective pages infoboxes? StalwartUK (talk) 18:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :::::Yes, I'd say that would be appropriate. Plus a small note in the article explaining it. Christophee (talk) 19:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC) Help me here Having watched both episodes I can only find two foreign robots, AK and Hydrotec? Which am I missing? snowdog140 16:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :Tyke is Dutch. Just look at the names of the team members. 'Van' tends to appear in Dutch names. The German equivalent is 'Von'. Christophee (talk) 16:34, November 5, 2012 (UTC) ::Having said that, Tyke is apparently from Celle, which is in Germany. I'm not sure how to explain that. Christophee (talk) 16:37, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :::As well as having Dutch names, the team has a Dutch website (which is down and apparently cannot be archived unfortunately), and the team captain has a profile on the Dutch Robot Games forum. The only thing I really cannot explain is the German home town. Christophee (talk) 16:50, November 5, 2012 (UTC) ::::It could be that the team are Dutch but live in Germany, but we'd need exact confirmation, which I can't see happening. snowdog140 16:55, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :::::I just noticed that the team captain's profile on the Dutch Robot Games forum (from a post dated 2004) lists his location as Delft in the Netherlands. Yet more evidence that the team is not from Germany. I think I have a DRG profile, so I could attempt to get in contact with him to ask about this. Christophee (talk) 16:59, November 5, 2012 (UTC) I've established from the DRG forum that team captain Börge van Gurp is located in Delft, and I've found a Google+ profile with the same name and location, which also links to profiles on various other social networks. I don't have accounts on any of these sites, otherwise I'd get in contact. If anyone wants to do it for me, the link is here. Christophee (talk) 16:44, November 6, 2012 (UTC) :I can contact him via Facebook, but could you clarify exactly what you would want me to ask? [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 20:17, November 7, 2012 (UTC) ::I would appreciate that. Firstly, you need to establish that it's the same guy. It seems quite likely, but I would make sure first. Then, if he is the right person, could you ask whether he can give any explanation why on the series it says that Tyke is from Celle even though it's a Dutch team? That's the main thing I'd like to know, but you may as well ask whether he has any other information that we might not already know about the robot or the team. Christophee (talk) 20:47, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :Alright, I've sent him a message via Facebook. Here's hoping. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 21:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC) ::I had a sudden brainwave today and sent Börge a private message on the Dutch Robot Games forum. I'm not sure how active he is, so there's no guarantee of a reply. I've also messaged Marco van Hek of Pika to ask about Caesar. I don't know why I didn't do this before. Christophee (talk) 13:11, April 21, 2013 (UTC) :::It turns out that Börge isn't active on the forum, but I asked the same question to Edwin de Hoon and he got back to me today with this message: It is correct that we are from Holland and we did not get Tyke ready for the dutch selections. But Börge had also a Geman passport, because his mother is German and his grandparents still lived in Celle. There were not enough robots for the German Wars, so we were able to compete in those. We got our robot moving only a few hours before the show, because we got our last missing parts (speedcontroller) in England at the location. This is exactly the information we needed, and I will add it to the page right now. Christophee (talk) 19:02, April 22, 2013 (UTC) German Series Record Do we really need a Series Record section for robots that only appeared in the German Series? Some robots have it and others don't, and I want to make it consistent, but I'm unsure whether to remove the ones we have, or add it to the pages that don't have it. Christophee (talk) 16:57, November 7, 2012 (UTC) Filming dates So just now I've been trying to figure out when this series was filmed and I think I may have an answer. The magazine article states that recording took place following the end of production of the sixth UK series "last summer" (which we know happened in July). However, it also mentions the cold October weather (when Extreme Series 2 was shot). Since we know when the episodes were broadcast there's no way the whole series could've been shot on time in October. What if they weren't shot at the same time... *2002 July: UK Series 6 is filmed, after which the German Series (and probably) the UK vs Germany special are recorded. Arena pit release button is a bumper in all 4 of the episodes. *2002 October: UK Extreme Series 2 is recorded, which includes the European Championship. Versions of this championship are produced for both the UK and Germany simultaneously. Pit release button has been changed to a tyre. To me this seems to be the most plausible sequence of events. StalwartUK (talk) 13:45, November 9, 2012 (UTC) :It certainly sounds likely. I think we're pretty certain that the European Championship was filmed separately from the other four episodes because of the change in the pit release button. Christophee (talk) 14:27, November 9, 2012 (UTC) Pre-season competitor list By trawling through Talk:Hydrotec, I found a list of the intended German series competitors, listed before filming. Reading a post from Django on this archive, the list of competitors was supposed to be: *Tumble Bot, Lars Kustner *Tsunami, Erich Rensberger *Ansgar's Revenge, Joachim Thomsen *Thorgrim, Michael Streng *Black Hole, Jorg Marschall *Not Perfect, Bryan Cutler *Hydrotec, Paul Koch *Golem, Oliver Buchel *Delldog, Stefan Duhl *Phoenix, Michael Schnoor *Son of Armageddon, Holge Barske *VIR, Sascha Kaderka *X-Ray, Frank Fietzek *Fred, Dominik Dahlmann *Tyke, Boerge van Gurp *Absolut Krankhaft *Das Gepäck *Sniper 1 *Team Dynamite *Maverick, Michael Schmidt A few things to note here: *The forum user Brainbuster refers to his robot as VIR, and references hydraulic weaponry, so I suspect this is the name of the unidentified crusher seen in the background of the series. *Flensburger Power seemingly had a planned successor named Phoenix! Michael Schnoor was the team captain for Flensburger Power, so this is a definite link. *Robots named Fred, Tumble Bot and Maverick were on the list with team members listed, none of whom I can match up to any other robots. *It seems like Sniper was on the list of competitors. With Michael Hanser of the Sniper team joining forces with the Not Perfect captain to enter Series 7 with Reaper NP2 and Tartarus, I'm inclined to believe this is the same Sniper we're familiar with, especially as "Sniper 1" would distinguish it from the newer Sniper built for Series 7. *Junkyard Queen was originally going to be named X-Ray, which was changed due to there already being a robot called X-Ray. *With Absolut Krankhaft being on the list, it can't be as last-minute of a reserve as we thought. *Das Gepäck being on the list is curious, but I wouldn't take this as evidence that it was meant to enter the main competition. *'Pegasus', Bei Tremender and Desaster, the three unknowns we've previously reported on, are nowhere to be seen. Perhaps these guys didn't get past the auditions. The Hydrotec talk page also suggests that previous wiki users were able to access more of this thread (which is how we learned Hydrotec and Snake Bite were from the same builder), but that option seems to have been lost to time. A tremendous shame, considering what a goldmine this appears to be! [[User:ToastUltimatum|'T'OAS]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'T']] 23:54, February 3, 2020 (UTC)